I question altogether whether we are individuals... - humanist @ roua.org :

I question altogether whether we are individuals...

Written by Romeo Anghelache no comments

..the title is quoted from a discussion between Jiddu Krishnamurti and David Bohm (there are several parts), on the future of humanity, happening in 1983.

"Thought is limited", me is a history, the psyche is stalling, "are we all one, really?", "inseparable whole, you're absolutely right", "we've been conditioned", "in its very nature, thought is divisive", "after a while, you see so much evidence of separation, you say, that you forget how it started", "thought is time", "I want to be...I want to become...non-violent, take that for example. That is, altogether, a fallacy.", "all ideals are illusory, psychologically; the idea of building a marvelous bridge is not illusory.", "become what is, and becoming away from what is, I question both", "self-improvement...something so utterly ugly", "the source of all this, is the movement of thought as time", "..I need time means dividing between the observer and observed",

"then, is it possible to transcend thought?", "greed is a movement", "the attempt to not be greedy is a movement, a becoming", "is it possible to not become psychologically?", "can I remain what I am", "greed is me[..] the attributes, qualities, conclusions, are me", "is it possible to perceive without all the movement in memory?", "we don't experience mismemory", "the activity of thought will never bring it about [peace on earth]", "is there an activity which is not touched by thought, not something wholly sacred...., we are saying there is", "the intelligence is not the activity of cunning thought", "when we operate from memory, we are not very different from a computer", "in this country you are programmed as British", "that intelligence, may act through memory and knowledge, but it's not them", "the end of me",

"why does suffering prevent intelligence", "my suffering is diferent from your suffering [..] an illusory thing", "the world and I are one...it is an actuality", "you are awake, I'm not...your relationship with me is very clear but I have no relationship with you, I cannot, I insist on division and you don't", "the self hides behind many things", "if one has children, what is their future", "..but now educations means merely accumulation of knowledge"

"there is no evolution of the psyche", "giving importance to the self is creating great damage to the world: it is constantly in conflict, not only with itself, ... but with the whole universe", "the constant assertion of the self, is the movement, the conditioning", "can that conditioning be dissipated", "because it the right thing to do"

"in attention, thought has no place", "effort is not attention", "attention can only come in to be when the self is not"

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